Adoption, When does God Adopt us? (3 views) Subscribe   
  From:  David (DavidABrown)    4/24/2001 10:44 am  
To:  ALL   (1 of 11)  
 
  12.1  
 
Adoption: 
Adoption - See also Born Again, Inheritance, & Predestination 

Huiothesia (5206) Huios - sons; Tithemi - to place, appoint, commit; to place as sons. 

Verses - Rom 8:15,23;9:4 Gal 4:5 Eph 1:5 

First Use: Genesis 48:5-6 And now thy (Josephs) two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I (Jacob) came unto thee into Egypt, are mine (adoption); as Reuben and Simeon (existing sons), they shall be mine. And the children, which thou begettest after them, shall be yours, and shall be called after the name of their brethren in their inheritance. 

Adoption Biblically is slightly different than what we think of as adoption. For instance a stranger is not adopted into the family of God, like the concept we have of adoption where a non-family member becomes a family member through adoption. The Biblical concept of adoption is conformation of adulthood of an existing family member and with adulthood comes privileges and inheritance. In the Bible Jacob actually adopted his two grandchildren Ephraim and Manasseh. Jacob did not need to adopt them to make them family but he did need to adopt them to give them an inheritance in the promise land. Indeed Ephraim and Manasseh did receive inheritances in the promise land just like their uncles did, because they were adopted as sons and received the same inheritance as their uncles the sons of Jacob. 

We are born into the family of God, through faith in the resurrection of Jesus in the new covenant. Jesus spoke to Nicodemus and told him that he must be Born Again in order to see the kingdom of God, [in Jesus the kingdom of God is now available] so the first step to becoming a member in the family of God is to be Born into it as a child of God, and that is done by the person accepting the covenant of God that we are His creation separated by our sin and that He loves us and died for our sins to resurrect from death to reconcile us to Him. When we accept the New Covenant we are now in a correct relationship with God, we acknowledge that God exists and that we desire to have a relationship with Him. We have asked for forgiveness of our sins, we are now cleansed from our sin, we are now clean, and God in Spirit has come inside of us giving us a new life, a new birth into His family as a child of God. 

Once we are a born again child of God we are then predestined (appointed outcome) to the adoption. The actual adoption takes place later, when we physically die and our spirit and soul enter the visible presence of God where we are then adopted as sons of God and being sons of God we then receive an inheritance in heaven (visible presence of God). 

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to whit, the redemption of our body. 

Excerpt from the Book 
Basic Christian: Theology 
By David A. Brown 





David A. Brown
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    5/4/2001 8:57 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (2 of 11)  
 
  12.2 in reply to 12.1  
 
*All humans are a part of Gods Creation but only those who Acknowledge God as God by Faith become the children of God.
For ye are all the children of God by Faith in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:26






David A. Brown
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  From:  Corkybob   5/11/2001 2:11 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (3 of 11)  
 
  12.3 in reply to 12.2  
 
Dear David, 
I'll bit. We are adopted into the household of God when we are baptised. Paul says that baptism is the equivalent to jewish circumcession. In the Old Testiment when a person was to become a Jew, they had to be circumcized. Peter says in 1 Pt 3:21 that we are saved by baptism. Peter says in several places that one must confess and be baptised. Baptsim is a ritual, just as circumcission is. It is the obedence to Gods word by being baptised that is the power. When we are adopted all of our sins are forgiven up to that time and we are truely saved. 
Pax Domini 
John S. Cork
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    5/12/2001 12:29 am  
To:  Corkybob   (4 of 11)  
 
  12.4 in reply to 12.3  
 
Bob, 
Thanks for the reply. 
Lets put a few ducks in order. 
You say that When we are baptized/adopted all of our sins are forgiven if our sins are dealt with in baptism/adoption then why did Jesus die on the cross? Why not just baptize everyone and Jesus could have avoided that whole uncomfortable cross situation. The Cross from which Jesus Proclaimed It is Finished is the symbol of mans Redemption not baptism. 

As Christians we must acknowledge: 

1)Our Sins --> and the remedy for our sins is the Blood & Death of Jesus on the Cross. Because Sin is Death. This is our redemption, those that acknowledge sin and Jesus as the Atonement are Redeemed, brought/allowed into the presence of God. 

2)The Resurrection of Jesus --> The Resurrection of Jesus 3 days and 3 nights after His death is proof that Jesus is God and that He has power over Life and Death. 

The Baptisms come after a personal confession of the individuals sin and after the Individuals confession of Jesus Christ as the Redeemer from sin/death & Jesus Christ as our Resurrection to Eternal life. 

Baptisms (Plural) because there are different Baptisms. 
John the Baptist baptized with Water unto Repentance (Awareness of sin). 
John said (Matthew 3:11) that Jesus would Baptize with the Holy Spirit and with Fire. 

Note: Jesus does not Baptize with water and therefore Water Baptism cannot save us. 

After we as Individuals confess our sin and with Faith in the Resurrection of Jesus, Jesus then Baptizes us with the Holy Spirit, This is the Born again event. It comes only once in the life of a believer and it only comes from Jesus {John 20:22}. We receive this Baptism by Faith, it is not an experience. We are saved by Faith not by experiences i.e. water Baptism, or works, which are experiences. We continue to have encounnters, baptisms-experiences of the Holy Spirit and Baptisms of Fire (refining fire in our life, trials ext)but there is only one saving baptism by faith in Jesus Christ. 

The water Baptism comes after the Spiritual (Born Again) Baptism of Jesus. It is a Baptism of our acknowleging the death (burial in water) and the Resurrection (rising from the water) of Jesus and applying it to our life, as we are dead to this world (works and law) and are alive to God (relationship) in Christ Jesus. 

When we become Born Again by the Spirit of God we become children of God we are in Gods family. 

The adoption takes place later when we are Adopted into the Resurrection in Heaven after our physical death. 

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ: 

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say to thee, Except a man be Born Again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God. 

David A. BrownBasic Christian: Forum 

Edited 5/12/01 12:01:54 PM ET by DAVIDABROWN 



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Edited 5/14/2001 12:02:31 AM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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  From:  Corkybob   5/14/2001 7:10 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (5 of 11)  
 
  12.5 in reply to 12.4  
 
Dear David, 
I think that we have a problem with definitions. When one is baptised their sin is forgiven up to that time. Adults are required to have confession but this in itself is ore formality since if it is done before baptism the person isn't a Christian thus his sin could not be forgiven, if it is done afterwards then unless he has sinned between the time of baptism and his/her first confession, then it is a rehash. This doesn't matter because I think you missed the big picture. Either confession or baptism would not be of any use unless Christ died for us. His death is what gave us life. His death brought about the Church. His unceasing representation to the Father for our sins is the mechanism in which forgives sins. The Son who is God, is humiliated everytime we ask for forgiveness in that God being perfect, the son has taken on imperfection in the guiess of his wounds. He represents himself to the Father every time we seek forgiveness. This is the love that he has for mankind. 

Symbolicly we find this in Jn 19:34. From Christs death his side was opened and water (sign of baptism) and blood (sign of forgiveness or confession) flowed from his side. This was the product of Christs death, the institution of the Sacraments of Baptism and Confession. 

A more vivid picture comes from Rev 5:6. The lamb standing as if slain. This is a refernce to Jesus. His standing as if slain is in referance to his wounds which he bares for us. This can be found in Jn 21:27. 

No where in the bible does it say that baptism comes after your personal confession (born again). We are missing free will here. You can know that Jesus is your Lord and savior but refuse to acknowledge it. You can also confess to Christ as your Lord and savior and refuse baptism, which will get you no where. Only with Baptism (confessing your believe is an option) are you saved. 1 Pt 3:21 "this prefigures baptism (Noah's salvation from the flood) which saves us now." Jn 3:5 "Amen, amen, I say unto you, unless a man is born again of the water and the Holy Spirit,...". This goes hand in hand with Mt 3:16 "And when Jesus had been baprised, he immediately came up from the water. And behold, the heavens were openedto him, and he saw the spirit of God decending as adove and coming upon him." Jesus being Rabbi, or teacher, was teaching that when one is baptised the Holy Spirit decends upon you, thus your sins have been forgiven (for God cannot enter a sinfull person.) Thus with the Holy Spirit within you, you have become a child of God. 

As far as Jesus not baptising, we would be in a fix if the requirment was tha he would have to baptise us. Scriptures says it plan and simple, Baptism saves. 

As far as experiences, you are right, we are saved by faith. Where you go wrong is to associate Baptism with an experience. An experience is when one is "filled with the Holy Spirit". These experiences are not very reliable. The Faith that we are saved by is the faith in general, not specific. James 2:14 is expliciet about this. "You show me your faith and I will show you my works." 3 times he calls those who taught salvation by Faith alone (the acknowledgement of Jesus as ones Lord and Savior) ignoramisus. To be baptised is what Our faith demands. This is what the Faith that Paul preaches about in his statements of works and faith. He preaching about works is not works, but works alone. Yours and mine evangilation of each other can be considered a work. Anything done, even contemplation of the bible is a work. The restrictions over work isn't that you are not to do works, but that you can not boast, nor can you feel that "I was a nice guy, I did good works, so I am going to heaven. No Christian denomination teaches this, including the Catholic Church. 
Pax Domini 
John
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    5/14/2001 9:51 am  
To:  Corkybob   (6 of 11)  
 
  12.6 in reply to 12.5  
 
< " Jn 3:5 "Amen, amen, I say unto you, unless a man is born again of the water and the Holy Spirit,...". > 
Bob this is a misquote, the word again does Not appear anywhere in verse John 3:5. Please use Only accurate quotes, if you use another version Besides KJV then specify the version. I know that you are not trying to give your words as scripture so please be careful. 

<No where in the bible does it say that baptism comes after your personal confession (born again).> 

Acts 8:35-38 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said if thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. 

Yes, water Baptism is an Experience! I am Water Baptized and it was an Experience. I actually consider it to be one of the Best Experiences of my Entire Life and I absolutely whole heartedly encourage Every Christian to be water Baptized as a Jesus confessing Born again adult. 





David A. Brown
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    5/16/2001 2:23 pm  
To:  ALL   (7 of 11)  
 
  12.7 in reply to 12.6  
 
Here is another verse that shows that the Inheritance for the believer is sill yet future after the Believer physically dies and enters (with a new Spiritual Body) Bodily into the Resurrection of Jesus. It is at this time that the Born Again child of God becomes adopted as a Son of God.
1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

What a Great thought! Our physical bodies that are subject to illness, disease, and death, all because of sin, are going to return to the earth. But the real spiritual/soul part of us will enter into heaven, the direct presence of God.

In other words the best part of being a Christian  having a relationship with Jesus, is yet to come in our own bodily resurrection, adoption and inheritance, into everlasting life with God.

My day just got brighter! after just studying this.






David A. Brown
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  From:  Corkybob   5/17/2001 12:30 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (8 of 11)  
 
  12.8 in reply to 12.6  
 
Dear David, 
Again is indeed used, other wise why would Necodemis say "How cqan a man be born old? Can he enter a second time into his mothers womb?" Jn 3:4. 

The term is annothin. This can mean either born again or born from above. 

Born again is being baptised. 1 Pt 3:21 makes this clear. As far as being baptised, it is a must. Jews had to be circumcissed in order to enter into the Covenant of the Lord. Paul says that baptism is the Christian baptism. It is very evident by scripture that baptism is needed to becom christian. 3 Times in Acts Peter says "confess and be baptised." 

Yes, it is an experience, but you do not have to feel saved after baptism to be saved. The experience can be missing and the truth is still evident. 
Pax 
John 

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    5/18/2001 8:28 am  
To:  Corkybob   (9 of 11)  
 
  12.9 in reply to 12.8  
 
Thanks for the clarification. 
I have posted a "Baptism" topic. Please read that and let's continue this on that string. It will be easier for others to have simular information together. 

God Bless You, 
David 






David A. Brown
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  From:  Dream Weaver (gen77c)   6/26/2001 9:18 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (10 of 11)  
 
  12.10 in reply to 12.9  
 
ok, why adoption if we're supposed to be god's children, geez, get it together people!



Visita La cucaracha Esta de poca!!! especialmente las traducciones e ilustraciones.
 
  
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   From:  David (DavidABrown)    6/26/2001 9:44 pm  
To:  Dream Weaver (gen77c)   (11 of 11)  
 
  12.11 in reply to 12.10  
 
Hi, 
Just trying to make a couple of points. 

1) We become Children of God when we are Born Again Spiritually by the Spirit of God after we Acknowledge that Jesus is Alive! and Resurrected from Death. 

This special Born Again takes place while we are still in our Physical Bodies. Born Again Christians are right now the Children of God. 

2) We become Adopted by God when we physically die and enter the presence of God. Then we are Adopted by God and we get a New Spiritual Body, to replace our current physical body. Our new Spiritual body will be without sin, so we will no longer have pain and suffering in our Adopted Spiritual Body. 

In other words being a Born Again Christian happens right now But the Best part of Christianity is yet to come in our Adoption to God!! 





David A. Brown
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